Is it alright for non-religious people to swear oaths?

Count Arioch the 28th · Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:29 am

I was wondering this.

I am not religious. I believe that if the abrahamaic deity is real, then he's a douche for creating not one, but three of the most hateful religions on the planet.

However, I tend to use the lord's name in vain. A lot. I mean, "For the love of God" rolls off the tongue better than "For the love of Odhinn" or "For the love of Boccob" for me.

And really, there is literally no swear word that replaces the emotion than my oath of choice during moments of complete and utter frustration, "Jesus fucking Christ".

Is that hypocritical of me? I was wondering.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:49 am

Well, I'd say that for atheists it's just a random, meaningless swearword, nothing more. The reason such words are indeed forbidden to the religious is because of the meaning inherent - they're not allowed to say "Jesus fucking Christ!" because that's insulting to old JC and he might strike them down. Nonbelievers needn't worry about that - to the nonbeliever, that is nothing but a name of a made-up person, one that annoys some other people. Just like "Peter Comeinmyear" or "Suckmaster Dongslut".

Also remember that according to the Christian Bible, it is forbidden to swear by something - as in "I swear by the Bible that I am telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God". Seriously, they're breaking their rules every time they do that. Again, if you don't believe in their religion in the first place, you're free to swear by it in that sense as well.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:53 am

I take The Lord's name in vain all the time, although I've been trying to cut back. I'm pretty sure I picked it up from my dad when I was young (he's an Atheist as far as I know, but he comes from a moderately religious family).

Anyway, my view is that it isn't hypocritical because swearing has nothing to do with belief. By yelling "Jesus!" you're acknowledging your cultural heritage and anger rather than religion, just like a Mormon yelling "Oh fudge!" isn't professing some kind of faith in confection.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:57 am

Well, you have the right to say you don't like what he's done, or something. I do say it sometimes, too, which frustrates me.

-Crissa

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:32 am

hypocrisy? Not really. It's more like terminology failure. Sticking to swears and declarations that do not validate a religious viewpoint is the politically correct thing to do. Using politically incorrect speech validates the viewpoints of your enemies to an extent, but in casual conversation is probably meaningless.

Using swears like "Jesus Christ!" is kind of like having a Pro-Choice advocate refer to Operation Rescue as "Pro-Life" rather than "anti-abortion." It is a politically incorrect usage that to an extent validates an opposing view. If you don't really care whether you validate an opposing view, then by all means continue.

Remember that language has power. The words you use to describe things limit what can be discussed. By excluding Jesus from your everyday language use, you in essence exclude him from possible conversation ad ultimately from public discourse. Which would be awesome. But that's a long road that won't be completed in your lifetime, so worrying about it is probably counter productive to your blood pressure and little else.

-Username17

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:28 pm

Koumei wrote: Also remember that according to the Christian Bible, it is forbidden to swear by something - as in "I swear by the Bible that I am telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God". Seriously, they're breaking their rules every time they do that. .

Matthew 5:34-37 wrote: But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Yeah, but our country used a Thesaurus to get around that one before we even had a country:

Here're some current versions of a practice that dates back to at least the American Revolutionary War:

US Presidential Oath of Office wrote: I do solemnly swear (or affirm)

us oath of enlistment wrote: I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm)

US oath of office for commissioned officers wrote: I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm)

Because, you know, affirming an oath is totally different than swearing one as far as Jebus is concerned. But they are exactly the same in the eyes of the law.

Judging__Eagle · Post by **Judging__Eagle** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:04 pm

Wheee! It's a wordplay shenanigans!

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:11 pm

I do get amused when Hollywood tries to make people of the non Jesus-faith swear in line with their faith.

As a somewhat-hindu (technical term, that), I'll use the varied Gods & Goddesses' names "in vain" while I speak tamil, hindi, or any other language where the swear seems more comfortable.

But having Ahmed Farouk on CSI:NY throw down a "On Allah's grave! this is a great injustice" all in English is just silly.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:16 am

Yeah, oaths tend not to sound quite right in the wrong languages. "There is no god but Allah" just doesn't roll off the tongue like "لا إله إلاَّ الله" ("La ilaha illa Allah").

Which brings me to my next point: all oaths should be tongue twisters for coolness' sake.

Talisman · Post by **Talisman** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:59 am

A_Cynic wrote:But having Ahmed Farouk on CSI:NY throw down a "On Allah's grave! this is a great injustice" all in English is just silly.

Wait; Allah's dead?

...

Where is he buried?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:36 pm

yeah let's go dig the bastard up. And they thought the cartoons were bad...

as for me... well, blasphemy is half the fun of not being a given religion, but it gets tricky in that I feel as if people will likely assume I'm christian if I say "Jesus christ..." or the like (though I have no problem with saying goddamnit.... funny that.) Though things like "Oh Dear sweet lord" work for me, since well, I'm not saying who the lord is...

I'm just waiting to be called on to swear on the bible for something, because I want to make a point of the fact that I'm not christian. I want to see what they get for me to swear on.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:30 pm

Prak_Anima wrote:I want to see what they get for me to swear on.

My guess is either "Origin of Species" or a blank sheet of paper. Because as we all know, if you're not a Christian, that must make you an atheist agnostic (both at once). There are no other religions at all. Although you might be an atheist agnostic satanist, if the Christian in question thinks you're bad enough.

It'd be awesome if it was a blank sheet of paper. In fact, you should ask to swear by that.

"Today in England, a hundred thousand atheists went on a violent riot after a blank piece of paper was found on a cartoonist's desk."

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:29 pm

Talisman wrote:
Wait; Allah's dead?

That's correct, we killed him with our science. Fucking Chaz.

Beth_Naught · Post by **Beth_Naught** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:13 am

There's something appealing about the synonymy between "Oh, Christ!" and "Oh, Crap!" Not that "Let's stop at the bathroom, I gotta take an 'Isa," is ever going to enter the lexicon.

Maybe sometimes juvenile blasphemy really is the right choice.